What i’m saying is that not everyone might agree with me because of their own backgrounds and we should not stigmatize such individuals and alienate them.

What I’m saying is that once you say virginity has moral connotations, then virginity is more than a matter of physical state and hence an issue of the mind because only the mind can comprehend moral implications of our actions.

Now, in context of the CSE, it does seem to cover all the points you have mentioned about safer sex, STDs, testings, pregnancies …

And I agree all the above needs to be covered. Teaching that virginity is a state of mind does not negate the need for the above nor is it a statement saying that above is not needed.

On a last note, I realize that virginity is a state of mind can actually be a statement that is both cautionary and liberating.

The cautionary aspect is directed at those who are engaging in sexual activities but still think they are virgins because they are not having vaginal sex. Studies have shown that youths do adopt such attitudes about their activities. I’ve written 1 other post linking to one such study.

The liberating aspect is like what I mentioned in the original post. Whatever decision was made that resulted in first sex, your subsequent actions and life need not be dictated by this change in physical state. I do agree that this does not mean that the youth should live life like nothing happened (all the precautions you mentioned about tests and such should be done still) but the youth need not feel guilt and shame or be defined by just 1 event in their life which personally I feel is what happens when we harp on this whole virginity thing be it a physical state or moral concept.

If so then what needs to be taught is not “virginity is a state of mind”.

It should rather be, “virginity doesn’t matter. Just have safer sex”.

Are you comfortable with the above ?

Personally, I think that virginity as a concept has (practical) value, and this is apart from what people may value in virginity as a moral concept.

For as long as a person remains a virgin, and by this I mean abstinence from any form of sex, he / she will not be at risk of unwanted pregnancies or STI infections. Which is the reason why people advocate practical instruction on sexuality for teenagers to begin with — they don’t want teenagers to get into unwanted pregnancies or get STI infections.

Therefore, I think there is value in teaching about virginity an ideal in that it is risk-free, without avoiding from the other message which is that sex, if unavoidable, is to be carried out as safely as possible.

In this connection, teaching that “virginity is a state of mind” is dangerous in the sense that it encourages denial.

If a teenager had engaged in unsafe sex we would want him / her to get tested.

If someone is not a virgin he / she should be tested before having sex with his / her next partner, particularly in the case of couples looking to conceive as an infection can be passed to the child.

As you can see, denial (ie. “I’m still a virgin notwithstanding my multiple sex partners”) can have disastrous consequences for the individual and people around him.

If there is a risk that teenagers might behave more recklessly after discovering that they’ve lost their virginity, then what needs to be taught is responsible behaviour after an regrettable act. This means getting themselves tested for STIs / pregnancies, taking medication to treat their STIs if necessary, and avoiding sexual contact until the infection is cleared (assuming it can be cured).

In la la land, it is possible to say that anything including “virginity is a state of mind”.

In the real world, all our acts have consequences. You may think that there is nothing immoral about having sex, but that does not change the fact that there are risks to engaging in sexual intercourse, particularly if the sex is unsafe.

You may also wish to note that encouraging teenagers to live in denial (whether in the case of sex or something else), contributes little to their development into mature adults.

More specifically, when talking about ‘Virginity is a state of mind’, I do agree that your scenario is a plausible one and knowing young boys out there, is a highly probable one.

I do realize that when teaching anything, context is important. Taken alone, this statement is ammo for all the wrong things.

Before I continue, I approach the statement from a POV that we put so many other connotations on the word ‘virgin’ beyond that of being a physical state.

Now, with regards to your example, it seems the premise of it is based that people want to retain their virginity so they lie to themselves about it and the CSE’s statement allows them that lie. The truth is, or rather, I see it that people want to know that they aren’t doing something deviant and morally wrong when they engage in sex. A better statement would have been ‘The Moral Implications Of Virginity Is A State Of Mind’ but I’m guessing their shorter statement was to mean the same thing.

Ok, back to your points on the statement. I do think you are right that when addressing this point, the 3 different groups have to be considered and the statement has to be elaborated properly and probably differently for each of these 3 groups.

Problem with using hypothetical scenario – Other hypothetical situations can be conjured up. Consider this: A boy asks a girl (virgin) for sex. The girl hesitated. The boy says, “Virgnity is a state of the mind” – even after we had done it you are still a virgin as long as you think you are. The girl says, “OK”.

You may be interested to read my critique of AWARE’s CSE Instructor Guide at http://www.vtaide.com/blessing/AWARE-cse.htm