Comments on: The ‘Service’ In Civil Service… http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/ Wanderings,Musings and Happenings from Ian on Singapore Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:45:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: iantimothy http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-152 iantimothy Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:34:20 +0000 http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-152 Hey Ned Stark,that is why for the last comment, I did something I have never done, which is to edit it. I left the url but removed it as a hyperlink. I don't want to help young pap's blog go to the top of the search results for this issue. I don't believe young pap is dumb. I do believe they know how the net works, and if we all accept their comments with the hyperlinks, we are going to push their page to the top of the results for searchs related to this issue which might drown out other points of view. Having said that, I'm feeling uncomfortable about what I have done. I don't like altering other people's comments. So, I guess that is why I left the url. People who are interested can still go to that site. Hey Ned Stark,that is why for the last comment, I did something I have never done, which is to edit it. I left the url but removed it as a hyperlink. I don’t want to help young pap’s blog go to the top of the search results for this issue. I don’t believe young pap is dumb. I do believe they know how the net works, and if we all accept their comments with the hyperlinks, we are going to push their page to the top of the results for searchs related to this issue which might drown out other points of view.

Having said that, I’m feeling uncomfortable about what I have done. I don’t like altering other people’s comments. So, I guess that is why I left the url. People who are interested can still go to that site.

]]> By: Ned Stark http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-151 Ned Stark Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:18:26 +0000 http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-151 Hmmmm...the modus operandi of these fellas seems to involve spamming ur blog. If they are really from ypap as some netizens believe, then i must say they are attempting to attract attention to their blog. In fact there are hundred over comments on the section regarding pay. Hmmmm…the modus operandi of these fellas seems to involve spamming ur blog. If they are really from ypap as some netizens believe, then i must say they are attempting to attract attention to their blog. In fact there are hundred over comments on the section regarding pay.

]]> By: iantimothy http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-150 iantimothy Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:33:41 +0000 http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-150 I can answer that now. I am not envious. So then, now can we proceed with the real discussion. I can answer that now. I am not envious. So then, now can we proceed with the real discussion.

]]> By: Young PAP http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-149 Young PAP Wed, 28 Mar 2007 07:50:11 +0000 http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-149 I have a lot of empathy for our Ministers. They do a job that very few people can do and they deserve to be paid accordingly. The question to be asked by the critics of their proposed pay increase is this- are you criticizing because you honestly do not believe that the Ministers are entitled to a pay increase or is it because you are simply envious? [youngpapblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/green-eyed-monster.html] I have a lot of empathy for our Ministers. They do a job that very few people can do and they deserve to be paid accordingly. The question to be asked by the critics of their proposed pay increase is this- are you criticizing because you honestly do not believe that the Ministers are entitled to a pay increase or is it because you are simply envious?

[youngpapblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/green-eyed-monster.html]

]]> By: WANG http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-148 WANG Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:26:01 +0000 http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-148 Ian I am not going to comment on the Singapore Ministers. What I would just like to highlight that every politician will ge their dues sooner or later for your oft mentioned countries via pegged life pension or superannuation or other costs and tax free and normally inclusive spouse(even childeren) in most OECD countries. So it is a case of either paying upfront or later. Ian

I am not going to comment on the Singapore Ministers. What I would just like to highlight that every politician will ge their dues sooner or later for your oft mentioned countries via pegged life pension or superannuation or other costs and tax free and normally inclusive spouse(even childeren) in most OECD countries. So it is a case of either paying upfront or later.

]]> By: iantimothy http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-147 iantimothy Mon, 26 Mar 2007 05:57:52 +0000 http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-147 Ok. I just thought of an example. Like Lim Bo Seng. He was a war hero right. I remembered reading somewhere that his descendants are entitled to free education or something. Not sure how true is that. But if say we had a really good leader, and he really did awesome stuff for our country, I think its perfectly fine to take care of his family and descendants (up to a certain generation). When I say take care, I don't really know what sort of package I'm talking about but I'm sure if we wanted to, we could really implement something like this rather than pay now and hope for the best. Ok. I just thought of an example. Like Lim Bo Seng. He was a war hero right. I remembered reading somewhere that his descendants are entitled to free education or something. Not sure how true is that. But if say we had a really good leader, and he really did awesome stuff for our country, I think its perfectly fine to take care of his family and descendants (up to a certain generation). When I say take care, I don’t really know what sort of package I’m talking about but I’m sure if we wanted to, we could really implement something like this rather than pay now and hope for the best.

]]> By: iantimothy http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-146 iantimothy Mon, 26 Mar 2007 05:50:36 +0000 http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-146 Please, they already have their sights on you. Notice that camera following you around... Yeah. But I do agree with you. I whole heartedly believe that our civil servants deserve to be paid well if they serve Singapore well although I can't profess to know how well and admit that sometimes the amount does seem too much for me to comprehend (but then again, I'm not a civil servant so while I believe it is hard to be one, I can't know how hard). I also agree that we shouldn't say pay to avoid corruption. I mean, if we had to pay to avoid corruption, doesn't say much about our leaders (and I do consider top civil servants our leaders and not just ministers...). I mean, I personally do not believe some of our leaders would be corrupt just because they weren't paid to be not corrupt. 10cents, 10 dollars, 10 million, if a man is not corrupt, no matter what the salary you give him, he won't be corrupt. If the argument is that we reward you for being a man who will never be corrupt, then that is actually something I think I can live with. But that would be based on past history and not future hope. So, say some of our leaders who have retired who have shown that they weren't corrupt while serving Singapore well, I think it would be perfectly fair to give them like some super duper pension or something . Please, they already have their sights on you. Notice that camera following you around…

Yeah. But I do agree with you. I whole heartedly believe that our civil servants deserve to be paid well if they serve Singapore well although I can’t profess to know how well and admit that sometimes the amount does seem too much for me to comprehend (but then again, I’m not a civil servant so while I believe it is hard to be one, I can’t know how hard).

I also agree that we shouldn’t say pay to avoid corruption. I mean, if we had to pay to avoid corruption, doesn’t say much about our leaders (and I do consider top civil servants our leaders and not just ministers…). I mean, I personally do not believe some of our leaders would be corrupt just because they weren’t paid to be not corrupt. 10cents, 10 dollars, 10 million, if a man is not corrupt, no matter what the salary you give him, he won’t be corrupt.

If the argument is that we reward you for being a man who will never be corrupt, then that is actually something I think I can live with. But that would be based on past history and not future hope.

So, say some of our leaders who have retired who have shown that they weren’t corrupt while serving Singapore well, I think it would be perfectly fair to give them like some super duper pension or something .

]]> By: Acitizen http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-145 Acitizen Mon, 26 Mar 2007 05:23:09 +0000 http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-145 Heard on the radio this morning. High pay of ministers n C.S. discourage corruption .... will be cheaper for all of us than corruption. ... and we need to pay for the performance/capability. So what percentage of pay for performance and what percentage for discouraging corruption?? Can buy the pay for competency part but .... pay to dissuade corruption??? Cannot remember any CEO pay having a 'discourage corruption' component. History of cases of corruption tells us that it is not about the amount of money you are paid or have but the person's greed/dishonesty. In other words personal integrity. Therefore cannot see how high pay dissuade or prevent a agreedy/dishonest person from putting his/her hand into the till?? ... put another way .. are we saying that anyone who is lowly paid are incline to be corrupt and vice versa??? Oh dear!! if this is so, will it not put most of us into the corrupt category. Gosh!! Better ask my boss for a very high salary, otherwise I will be suspect!! Heard on the radio this morning.
High pay of ministers n C.S. discourage corruption …. will be cheaper for all of us than corruption.
… and we need to pay for the performance/capability.

So what percentage of pay for performance and what percentage for discouraging corruption??

Can buy the pay for competency part but …. pay to dissuade corruption???

Cannot remember any CEO pay having a ‘discourage corruption’ component.

History of cases of corruption tells us that it is not about the amount of money you are paid or have but the person’s greed/dishonesty. In other words personal integrity.

Therefore cannot see how high pay dissuade or prevent a agreedy/dishonest person from putting his/her hand into the till?? … put another way .. are we saying that anyone who is lowly paid are incline to be corrupt and vice versa???

Oh dear!! if this is so, will it not put most of us into the corrupt category.

Gosh!! Better ask my boss for a very high salary, otherwise I will be suspect!!

]]> By: Ned Stark http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-144 Ned Stark Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:20:42 +0000 http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-144 Ian, And she is not one who judges people. Ah well, but i must say that if one wants to promote the ypap blog, that post has done the job. 80 comments and counting ...heh.. Ian,
And she is not one who judges people. Ah well, but i must say that if one wants to promote the ypap blog, that post has done the job. 80 comments and counting …heh..

]]> By: iantimothy http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-143 iantimothy Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:06:36 +0000 http://ian.onthereddot.com/2007/03/23/the-service-in-civil-service/#comment-143 Hello Ned... yup..somehow my blog got into their radar... anyway, i don't understand why they used mother Teresa as an example too. She did great work without getting paid lots of money and she chose to do it in the absence of getting paid lots of money. Hello Ned… yup..somehow my blog got into their radar…

anyway, i don’t understand why they used mother Teresa as an example too. She did great work without getting paid lots of money and she chose to do it in the absence of getting paid lots of money.

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